By Liquid Music blog contributor Amy Chatelaine

What a curious play of perception, how readily the ear can mistake the vibration of wood or the push of breath through brass for the human voice. Some argue the cello most closely mimics our particular timbre; others stand fervently for the French horn. For composer, multi-instrumentalist, and Grammy Award-winning producer Josh Johnson, it was the saxophone whose likeness called to him from an early age, and would draw him into a vibrant array of reed-mediated conversations for years to come. A prolific collaborator, you can hear Josh in the company of Jeff Parker, Meschell Ndegeocello, Marquis Hill, Harry Styles, Broken Bells, and the Red Hot Chili Peppers (check out his full discography if you relish a divergence of discoveries and surprise encounters). He also served as musical director for Leon Bridges from 2018 to 2022.

In recent years, Josh has achieved two albums as a solo artist. His latest, Unusual Object, will be the parlance of his Minneapolis debut. And if you’ve yet to spend an evening nestled amidst the islands of velvet and light at Berlin, let this be your introduction to the North Loop’s oasis for jazz and delectable company. Find your tickets here for Josh’s September 27th performance, co-presented by Liquid Music and Berlin.

Berlin | Minneapolis, MN (Photo by Isabel Subtil)

But as you’ll read below, Josh takes the category of “solo album” and turns it into a question, one central to the composition of Unusual Object.

Perhaps the singularity of Josh Johnson is, paradoxically, a voice that both holds and invites conversation with multiple (and yes, sometimes unusual) others. To be present to his sound is to join a broader consideration of the voices we lean toward, and those that might repel — to an effect that inspires you to keep in the dialogue. It is an invitation to be part of an audience whose attention brings questions like, What feels familiar, and why? And, What feels jarring, and why? And then perhaps, What happens next?

We hope to meet you there. In the meantime, for your eavesdropping pleasure, a conversation with Josh Johnson:

This interview took place on August 16, 2024, and has been edited for clarity and conciseness.

Amy Chatelaine: This will be your Minneapolis debut as a solo performing artist. You’re currently based in LA, but from the Midwest originally, is that right?

Josh Johnson: Yeah. So I was born in Maryland, but when I was pretty young, we moved to Illinois, about an hour from Chicago. That's where I grew up.

Chatelaine: What do you remember about your earliest draw to the saxophone? And what was going on in your life at that time that specifically sparked a connection with jazz?

Johnson: Well, I started on piano first when I was a bit younger — I don't know if it’s in fifth or sixth grade where, in band, you get to pick an instrument. And actually, saxophone wasn't my first choice initially; it was drums. But there was something about saxophone I connected with. I don't know that I would have articulated it this way at 10, but it felt like the saxophone could be like the human voice.

More specifically, a year or two into playing I had asked my parents for Christmas for some recordings of people playing the saxophone, and they went out and bought four or five CDs, different stuff. There was one in particular that I really connected with, this compilation of recordings of the tenor saxophone. And I remember thinking, even at that age, it sounds like somebody's speaking to me, like I'm hearing someone's voice. And I think that ignited something in me. I felt a connection to that possibility of, wow, through an instrument you can speak to somebody in a literal way. It just captured me. It had this swagger and this freedom, but also a singular method of expression that I really connected with.

Josh Johnson performs "Marvis" (listen in full)

Chatelaine: As a highly sought-after collaborator, much of your musical career has been very conversational. And in the past few years, you've achieved two solo projects, Unusual Object the most recent. You’re quoted in the release by Northern Spy Records, describing this project as “a development and documentation of a more personal world of sound” after time spent further sharpening your own compositional voice. Would you say the conversational nature of collaboration played a particular role in finding your singular voice as a solo artist?

Johnson: Absolutely. I feel very lucky to be trusted often with other people's music. One of the things I love about collaborating is getting insight into how other people experience the world and hear and see. It allows me to access, or get to consider, different perspectives — and all of that from so many different sources. It has helped me zero in on what speaks to me, and to expand the things that I see.

I take a lot of lessons from other people and get to be like, What's it like to explore this in my own world? For every person, there are certain things that are really flexible, and certain things that are rigid. And it's really different in every context. I'm often encouraged in collaboration by seeing places where I maybe have been less flexible but somebody else is very flexible, and it encourages me to explore that within my own sonic world.

Collaboration has offered me a space to develop a lot of my ideas as well. A big one, and maybe an important influence leading to Unusual Object, is playing with Jeff Parker. Specifically, there's a band called the ETA Quartet, which improvised together for many, many years. I've been interested in electronics, but I really got an opportunity to explore that solely through improvisation in shared space with Jeff and Anna [Butterss] and Jay [Bellerose]. A lot of the things I found through improvising with all this stuff in real time. Over time I started to catalog, to accumulate a palette. And as I got closer to considering what my next record was going to be, I had the feeling of, I've gotten to explore and connect with all these sounds, but what's it like to now try to put a frame around it, to design the architecture myself?

Chatelaine: It strikes me that there’s a significance to improv being inherent to that process. The search for one’s unique creative voice can sometimes become overly earnest, or stressful in some ways. But improv by nature feels so permissive and playful, and just a good spirit to go on.

“ I think that [playfulness] comes as a byproduct of authenticity, or just being honest and attentive to the things that you’re drawn towards, the things that move you.”

— Josh Johnson

Johnson: Yeah, the exploration with play is completely important to my practice and just my existence since, both in and outside of music. I think that comes as a byproduct of authenticity, or just being honest and attentive to the things that you're drawn towards, the things that move you.

Chatelaine: Does that come naturally to you, that playfulness? Or is it something you've cultivated over time?

Johnson: That's a good question. When I got into music that was present, definitely. But I think somewhere in the midst of the study of music it got lost a little bit. I think that can happen, I feel like I have many friends and collaborators who've experienced something similar. I had to relearn or reengage with that playfulness and understand it as a strength, that it's actually foundational to my experiences with music.

Chatelaine: How do you go about continuing to cultivate that, or returning to it when it feels like it's gone out of reach?

Johnson: Especially in improvisation, one way that I try to reconnect to that is by allowing myself to get lost. It pushes me into a sort of problem solving and attentive state. So for me, part of that practice in music is getting lost, or trying to get lost, because that forces me to find a creative way back. It’s almost like it gives me something to react and respond to. And it has to be playful by nature. It's like, Okay, how do I get out of this? Or, How do I make it back? What's the creative pathway I can find back to wherever it is trying to get to?

“For me, part of that practice in music is getting lost, or trying to get lost, because that forces me to find a creative way back.”

— Josh Johnson

It took me a while to, maybe it seems simple, but to understand that you can be serious about the work and about the art, but you don't have to take it too seriously. I've had some examples, mentors for me who — I think I took a while to understand the beauty and having both of those things. A certain amount of play suggests a comfortability or a confidence in your ability to navigate something.

When I'm collaborating with or improvising with other people, sometimes that looks like in the moment really choosing to redirect my attention. It might be that I want everything I play to be in conversation with the bass drum for a little bit, or something that just gives me a different access point to creativity.

Chatelaine: You mentioned you've had several mentors that you look to that really lift up and dignify the role of playfulness. Who are some of those mentors for you?

Johnson: Yeah, I moved to California for a master’s fellowship program — it was more like direct mentorship, and one of the people that I was most excited about spending time with was Wayne Shorter, who recently passed. To me, he was somebody who really embodied that sense of play, and with so much depth and deep feeling. If you care to zoom in and get analytical, there's so much to be excavated. But even with all that depth, there always was a sense of play and a sense of humor. It's almost like it had the ability to make all of the colors more complex. Or it's like adding texture to color, or something like that.

And in the time I got to spend with him, so many of the lessons and directions didn't utilize musical language. They'd be like, What's it like for you to improvise as if you're this actor playing this role? What's it like to pretend you don't know how to play? All these, not always just prompts, but things that encouraged play and encouraged me to zoom out in a way that still gives access to all these things, but also another doorway and one that might actually have the ability to expand what it is that I’m trying to do. It’s playing music that's influenced by so many other things besides music.

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A post shared by Josh Johnson (@joshuaajohn)

Chatelaine: Turning to Unusual Object now, what were some of the things you were in conversation with when composing that album? Or is there a particular conversation you feel it's having on its own?

Johnson: Yeah, maybe some of both. One question initially it was, What is a solo album? There's a rich tradition of solo saxophone albums, maybe trending towards the avant garde. But the contemplation of that, and just asking myself, What does that really mean? and trying to come to a definition of my own was less instrument specific, but more about inputs. Whereas I do a lot of collaboration, this contrasted in being this one input — and that can be saxophone, that can be electronics, that can be synthesizer, but it's really just one source. And that to me is a version of a solo album — one that is maybe explored more in vocal music, but in instrumental music, I don't know that there’s the same framework. Or often, if there is a framework for a solo album, many times its goal is to demonstrate virtuosity on an instrument specifically. That was not for me; I was interested in not being that.

In terms of being in conversation with other things, there's quite a lot in there. I think I'm interested in poking at genre and asking, What? Why? Why we have a need for it, and who stands to gain from genre, to fit things into a frame, perhaps. [Unusual Object] is in conversation with some things specific to jazz, some stuff specific to electronic music. And also blending it all together, and blurring the lines. I feel really interested in the stuff on the margins and the ways in which when you reach the limits of something, stuff that's unexpected happens. You can also utilize that as a tool and develop a voice on the margins, and often that might lead you to something that is really personal and unique.

Chatelaine: And maybe gaining a hearing for other voices there, too.

Johnson: Mmm.

Chatelaine: There was an interview you gave back in 2020 that described your creative vision as being “equally parts fresh and familiar.” And then, “homey without ever being comfortable.” How do you think about holding those two experiences together? And when did that become important for you?

Johnson: I think it's always been important to me, or I've experienced so much music that way. Music has been an entry point or a catalyst to so many thoughts and conversations outside of music. And there's been so much music that's encouraged me and made me believe we can imagine something better than what we already have and what we know.

“There’s a lot in the world in this moment that seeks to make things flat and one dimensional. I’m interested in participating in, and trying to create experiences that encourage us to reconnect with the fact that there’s so much more color.”

— Josh Johnson

I'm interested in opening a door to a space for somebody, less than dictating an experience. But I believe that people want to feel things deeply. And I think we have a need for that, even if when we put on music that's not always what we think we're doing it for. I’m interested in creating a space that’s hard to define. Not out of trying to push people away, but that has layers in a way that reflects humanity. Maybe that sounds grandiose, but in ways that — I don't know how to describe this exactly, but that's very much the experience of being a human, you know? There's a lot in the world in this moment that seeks to make things flat and one dimensional. I'm interested in participating in, and trying to create experiences that encourage us to reconnect with the fact that there's so much more color.

Chatelaine: This has been such a lovely conversation, Josh, thank you. As we draw to a close, what are some things outside of music that are animating you right now, that are life-giving?

Johnson: So this is hobby-world, but mending clothing is an interest of mine. I’ve been interested in things and practices that encourage me to slow down and pay attention, because there’s so much that is doing the opposite, you know? And I can feel the effects on my attention span. I love sitting with something, and just using my hands, and engaging all of my senses.

Also, increasingly I find myself drawn to poetry for small bites of beauty. That’s something that’s been energizing me and lifting me up. I have a few different collections around the house, but I have a little book next to my bed, and I’ve been trying to — not always succeeding — but instead of reaching for the phone the first thing in the morning, what if I experience something beautiful, and that’s the way my day starts?